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Templates CSS vcTable



  • 2004-07-31 20:00:37

    Templates CSS vcTable

    Hello,

    I would like to start off by thanking the creators of this and the other "A" products for making such marvelous scripts. It is refreshing to see such wonderful scripts being created with accessibility in mind.

    I have been reading about ATutor templating and I realize that it is in its early stages. But I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts or ideas about using pure CSS [tableless] templates vs. Tables. The templates I have seen so far use tables instead of pure CSS. Has or is anyone working on one. In my research accessibility and CSS layout go hand in hand. Thanks again! Any comments would be greatly appreciated.


  • 2004-08-01 18:38:29

    css vs tables

    I'd much rather keep the tables. At least then I can fairly easily decode the layout of the pages by following the table tags in the dir themes files.

    As it is I dislike css because it has to be so rigid and affects more than one item. I like to design pages to fit exactly what I want THAT page to do. I can change blocks of code almost as fast as css by using search and replace. Faster actyally as I don't have to look up which commands to adjust in the css file. If I just have to scan over the html it's obvious.

    I'm working through the css which is long as it is. Once I have tested all the items and found out what controls what I'll post a key somewhere.

    PLEASE don't make the css any more opaque than it is now!


  • 2004-08-01 23:02:12

    CSS vs Tables

    Thanks for the input. Anyones else have any comments or information? Especailly in reguards to accessibility and tableless design, and CSS.


  • 2004-08-02 09:06:42

    Tables for now

    It is likely possible to create a tableless layout, but it would limit the browsers that could be used to display ATutor. Consistent display across browsers would be difficult to achieve with CSS alone (if not impossible). There are still a small percentage of Netscape 4 users for example, that would have problems with a CSS layout. Support for CSS across browsers is still somewhat inconsistent even in current browsers. Using tables is fine, and perhaps even necessary at this point in the evolution of CSS.

    Tables are only a problem for some using older assistive technologies that read the screen's surface, rather than the HTML. Current technologies have no trouble with table layouts. Tables are not in themselves an accessibility problem.

    I'd like to see a CSS based layout if someone wanted to try developing a theme/template set that does not use tables.


  • 2004-08-02 09:40:17

    CSS Design Demo

    Hi,

    Thank you for your information. I was re-reading several of my accessibility articles last night, to see why they preferred tableless layout, and it seemed that is was more for web standards than for accessibility. W3C seems to makes this point in several of their publications. That being said, I think I will attempt to build a CSS based layout for fun within the next few weeks.

    I realize [feel free to correct me if I am wrong] that the whole [ATutor] site will not be table free. Only the layout of the site will be created and controlled using CSS. I have yet to study the templates in depth but if memory serves, it seems that either due to the proper use of tables in the script or limitations with CSS the whole site can not be tableless.

    If anyone has any suggestions feel free to post them here. Thanks again for all the input and the amazing script(s), I will make the template accessible to all once it is finished.


  • 2004-08-02 10:16:07

    CSS is preferred

    W3C is right to suggest that CSS be used for layout in place of tables, but in reality it is currently not possible to create an exclusively CSS controlled layout if one is expecting their web app to work across all browsers (as ATutor does).

    Some day ATutor may be free of tables, but I would expect that to be a few years off, as CSS support across browsers becomes more consistent, and the older browsers with poor CSS support are fully phased out.